Political Gabfest

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss liberal judge Susan Crawford’s sweeping victory in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race; Trump’s new, nearly universal massive tariffs; and the dangerously casual standards the government is using to deport alleged gang members despite acknowledged mistakes. Here are this week’s chatters: Emily: Stephanie Nolen for the New York Times: Millions of Women Will Lose Access to Contraception as a Result of Trump Aid Cuts. John: Arthur Delaney for HuffPost: Emails Confirm Social Security Administration Canceled Maine Contracts As Political Payback; Fatima Hussein and Patrick Whittle for the Associated Press: Social Security’s acting leader faces calls to resign over decision to cut Maine contracts. Bodkin on Netflix. David: Book Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space, by author Adam Higginbotham; Movie The Intern with Robert De Niro and Anne Hathaway (official trailer on YouTube: The Intern); book Emma by Jane Austen (Emma ebook at Project Gutenberg; Emma at Jane Austen’s House). Listener chatter from Emma in Lebanon, New Hampshire: Vermont’s ‘Mr. Maple’ Has Great Stories To Tell For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily talks with Annie Karni and Luke Broadwater about their new book, Mad House: How Donald Trump, MAGA Mean Girls, A Former Used Car Salesman, A Florida Nepo Baby, and a Man With Rats In His Walls Broke Congress. In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with author Adam Higginbotham about his new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Kevin Bendis Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the hilarious-if-it-wasn’t-so-terrifying accidental sending of secret attack plans from Trump administration officials to a journalist; the chilling capitulation of big law firms to Trump’s onslaught; and similar aggressive efforts to intimidate higher education in the United States. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily and David talk with Michigan State Senator Mallory McMorrow about the path forward for Democrats and her new book Hate Won’t Win: Find Your Power and Leave This Place Better Than You Found It. In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with author Adam Higginbotham about his new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, John Dickerson and David Plotz are joined by Ruth Marcus to discuss the showdown over mass deportation and the government’s defiant response to court orders; a deep data dive by Ezra Klein and David Shor about why Trump won the 2024 election; and this week’s so-called “negotiation” call between Trump and Putin. Listener chatter from Kevin in Portland, Oregon: Orb (Netflix) For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, John and David are joined by Ruth Marcus to discuss the arrest and prosecution of a Houston midwife this week under Texas’s near-total abortion ban. In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with author Adam Higginbotham about his new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Kevin Bendis And Cheyna Roth Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

David Plotz talks with author Adam Higginbotham about his new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space. They discuss the feats of engineering that took place, the political cynicism and cost-cutting that played a role in the tragedy, the heroism and tragic loss of the people on board the shuttle, and more. Tweet us your questions @SlateGabfest or email us at gabfest@slate.com. (Messages could be quoted by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, John Dickerson and David Plotz are joined by Juliette Kayyem to discuss how Elon Musk and DOGE are endangering Americans; the Trump administration’s attacks on universities and the arrest of Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil; and the politics of the measles outbreak centered on West Texas. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, John and David are joined by Juliette Kayyem to discuss taking your kids to work: great, weird, terrible, or all of the above? In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Rich Benjamin about his new book, Talk to Me: Lessons From a Family Forged by History. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss President Trump’s authoritarian address to Congress and whipsawing on tariffs; the outright betrayal of Ukraine and alliance with Russia on naked display in the Oval Office; and the ways the Covid pandemic caused and accelerated change in America. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss Andrew Cuomo, the NYC mayoral race, and its relevance to national politics. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Rich Benjamin about his new book, Talk to Me: Lessons From a Family Forged by History. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the future of the transatlantic alliance and Ukraine in the wake of the UN resolution votes with Zanny Minton Beddoes, editor-in-chief of The Economist; the House GOP’s budget resolution and the reconciliation process; and the Trump administration’s increasingly aggressive moves against the press. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss recent legal developments around two death penalty cases in Texas. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Rich Benjamin about his new book, Talk to Me: Lessons From a Family Forged by History. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Cheyna Roth Research by Emily Ditto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the apparent corrupt bargain involving NYC mayor Eric Adams and the bonfire of Justice Department resignations; what could possibly go wrong when Musk and DOGE access the IRS and Social Security; and talk to Marc Dunkelman about his new book Why Nothing Works: Who Killed Progress – and How to Bring it Back. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss whether the human body could endure a voyage to Mars and if space really is our destiny as humans. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with author Rich Benjamin about his new book, Talk to Me: Lessons From a Family Forged by History. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Kevin Bendis Research by Emily Ditto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Emily Bazelon talks with author Rich Benjamin about his new book, Talk to Me: Lessons From a Family Forged by History. They delve into Rich’s complex family history— particularly the experiences of his grandfather, Daniel Fignolé. Fignolé was the president of Hatti in 1957 before being ousted by a coup that involved American influence. Rich and Emily discuss how the political upheaval had a lasting impact on Rich and his family, the immigrant experience of “internalizing America” and the lasting scars of trauma. Tweet us your questions @SlateGabfest or email us at gabfest@slate.com. (Messages could be quoted by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the constitutional crisis developing between President Trump and the courts, the attack on NIH and overhead funding, and political sorting among American workplaces. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss their recent favorite TV shows, focusing on HBO’s Somebody Somewhere and its relevance to contemporary American experiences. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with Yael van der Wouden about her novel, The Safekeep. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss Elon Musk’s speedy assault on federal agencies, talk to guest David Leonhardt about the widening gap between US prosperity and quality of life, and discuss recent aggressive immigration efforts by states. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss the New York doctor recently indicted in Louisiana for sending abortion pills there, and the complexities of abortion shield laws. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with Yael van der Wouden about her novel, The Safekeep. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the chaos and coming fight around impoundment of federal grants; the surprise market shakeup around AI and DeepSeek; and talk with Jonathan Rauch about his new book out next week entitled Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy. For this week’s Slate Plus Episode, Emily, John, and David discuss new data from the 2024 NAEP Reading and Mathematics Assessments and the collapse of student test scores in the US. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with Yael van der Wouden about her novel, The Safekeep. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss President Trump’s flurry of executive orders on the federal workforce and immigration; the sweeping January 6 pardons; and the overtly symbolic elements of Trump’s second presidential inauguration. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus segment, Emily and David go behind the scenes with John to discuss his new post as co-anchor for the CBS Evening News. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with Yael van der Wouden about her novel, The Safekeep. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Research by Julie Huygen and Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Emily Bazelon talks with author Yael van der Wouden about her debut novel, The Safekeep. They discuss why Yael chose a queer love story, how Yael’s own Dutch and Jewish heritage influenced her writing, the history of dispossession after World War II, and more. Tweet us your questions @SlateGabfest or email us at gabfest@slate.com. (Messages could be quoted by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the Senate confirmation hearings of Donald Trump’s Cabinet nominees, including Pete Hegseth and Pam Bondi; the January 6th report of Special Counsel Jack Smith; and the farewell address and lasting legacy of President Joe Biden. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus segment, Emily, John, and David discuss the politics of the L.A. fires. In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with David Greenberg about his new biography, John Lewis: A Life. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Cheyna Roth Research by Julie Huygen Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon and David Plotz are joined by Juliette Kayyem and discuss the status of the Jack Smith reports and Donald Trump’s legal troubles; Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk’s continued cozying up to Trump; and the horrific wildfires raging in Los Angeles. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Juliette, Emily, and David discuss dropping into the memory hole the January 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol. In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with David Greenberg about his new biography, John Lewis: A Life. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Cheyna Roth Research by Julie Huygen Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the presidency and post-presidential life of Jimmy Carter; the infighting of Elon Musk v. MAGA; and the possibilities of citizens’ assemblies with The New Yorker’s Nick Romeo. Here are some notes and references from this week’s show: John Dickerson for CBS Mornings: John Dickerson on Jimmy Carter’s legacy and a life shaped by faith CBS News: From the archives: Jimmy Carter becomes first president to walk in inaugural parade to White House and WGAL: Harrisburg, 1979: Jimmy Carter visits TMI after partial meltdown Sam Stein and Jonathan Alter for The Bulwark: Jimmy Carter was a misunderstood President. Here’s Why. and His Very Best: Jimmy Carter, A Life by Jonathan Alter Stephen Hess for The Brookings Institution: Jimmy Carter: Why He Failed Todd S. Purdum for The Atlantic: Jimmy Carter Was America’s Most Effective Former President and Gal Beckerman: What Made Jimmy Carter Such a Strange President Andrew Prokop for Vox: Elon Musk is on a collision course with Stephen Miller Jonathan Edwards for The Washington Post: MAGA is fighting a ‘civil war’ over H-1B visas. Here’s what they are. Nick Romeo for The New Yorker: What Could Citizens’ Assemblies Do For American Politics? History.com: Ancient Greek Democracy and Simon Hornblower for Britannica: The reforms of Cleisthenes Stanford University’s Deliberative Democracy Lab Bürgerrat: Citizens’ assemblies worldwide Here are this week’s chatters: Emily: Caucasia: A Novel and Colored Television by Danzy Senna and A Complete Unknown from Searchlight Pictures John: Event Santa Cruz: Dock Ellis No-No Cocktail at Brophy’s – Carmel; Patrick Hruby for ESPN: The Long, Strange Trip of Dock Ellis: Meet The Man Behind Baseball’s Most Psychedelic Myth.; and Paul Geisler Jr. for the Society for American Baseball Research: Dock Ellis David: Billy & Molly: An Otter Love Story from National Geographic and Imperium: A Novel of Ancient Rome and Fatherland: A Novel by Robert Harris Listener chatter from Lawrence in Bowling Green, Ohio: Rhiannon Giddens for Silkroad: American Railroad: A Musical Journey of Reclamation For this week’s Slate Plus bonus segment, Emily, John, and David discuss what President Joe Biden should do in his final two weeks in the Oval Office. In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with David Greenberg about his new biography, John Lewis: A Life. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Jared Downing Research by Julie Huygen Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Hosts Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz Follow @SlateGabfest on X / https://twitter.com/SlateGabfest Slate Political Gabfest on Facebook / https://www.facebook.com/Gabfest/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz close out a confounding year by answering listeners’ Conundrums. Thank you to Conundrums contributors Mitchell, Alan, Rajesh, Margot, Josh, Rob, Thad, Tobi, Collin, Anna, Glenn, Tom, Aimee, Brad, Phil, Erin, and Sam! For this week’s Slate Plus bonus segment, Emily, John, and David conduct a Conundrums lightning-round. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with Stephanie Gorton about her new book, The Icon & the Idealist: Margaret Sanger, Mary Ware Dennett, and the Rivalry That Brought Birth Control to America. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Jared Downing and Cheyna Roth with live show support from Katie Rayford Research by Julie Huygen Disclosure in Podcast Description: A Bond Account is a self-directed brokerage account with Public Investing, member FINRA/SIPC. Deposits into this account are used to purchase 10 investment-grade and high-yield bonds. As of 9/26/24, the average, annualized yield to worst (YTW) across the Bond Account is greater than 6%. A bond’s yield is a function of its market price, which can fluctuate; therefore, a bond’s YTW is not “locked in” until the bond is purchased, and your yield at time of purchase may be different from the yield shown here. The “locked in” YTW is not guaranteed; you may receive less than the YTW of the bonds in the Bond Account if you sell any of the bonds before maturity or if the issuer defaults on the bond. Public Investing charges a markup on each bond trade. See our Fee Schedule. Bond Accounts are not recommendations of individual bonds or default allocations. The bonds in the Bond Account have not been selected based on your needs or risk profile. See https://public.com/disclosures/bond-account to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Slate Political Gabfest host David Plotz talks with author David Greenberg about his new book, John Lewis: A Life. They discuss how Lewis went from marching with Martin Luther King, Jr. to an iconic career as a politician, Lewis’s commitment to non-violence, how Greenberg uncovered never-before-seen documents, and more. Tweet us your questions @SlateGabfest or email us at gabfest@slate.com. (Messages could be quoted by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the capitulation of American media and corporations to President-Elect Donald Trump; the government shutdown and surrender of House Republicans to Elon Musk; and the appeal of TikTok to the Supreme Court. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss the drones over New Jersey. In the latest Gabfest Reads, Emily talks with Stephanie Gorton about her new book, The Icon & the Idealist: Margaret Sanger, Mary Ware Dennett, and the Rivalry That Brought Birth Control to America. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Cheyna Roth Research by Julie Huygen Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices