Decoder with Nilay Patel

This is Casey Newton, founder and editor of the Platformer newsletter and cohost of the Hard Fork podcast. I’ll be guest hosting the next few episodes of Decoder while Nilay is out on parental leave. For the next three weeks, I’ll be talking to leaders in the productivity space about what they’re building, and how they can help us get things done. My guest today: Michael Truell, the CEO of Anysphere, the maker of automated programming platform Cursor AI. I sat down with Michael to talk about his product and how it works, why coding with AI has seen such incredible adoption, and what the future of automated programming really looks like. Links: Anysphere, hailed as fastest growing startup ever, raises $900 Million | Bloomberg AI coding assistant Cursor draws a million users without even trying | Bloomberg Anthropic rehires AI leaders from Anysphere | The Information Cursor apologizes for unclear pricing changes that upset users | TechCrunch OpenAI looked at buying Cursor creator before turning to rival Windsurf | CNBC Interview with Anysphere CEO Michael Truell about coding with AI | Stratechery Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Alex Heath, your Thursday episode guest host and deputy editor at The Verge. Today I'm joined by Hayden Field, The Verge’s new senior AI reporter to talk about the AI talent wars and why some researchers are suddenly getting traded like their NBA superstars. Both Hayden and I have been reporting on this for the past several weeks to get a sense of much these companies are paying for top talent, why Big Tech firms like Google are opting to hire instead of acquire, and what it means that some of the most sought-after AI experts in the world are no longer motivated by money alone. Links: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off — and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google | Verge Mark Zuckerberg promises you can trust him with superintelligent AI | Verge Meta is trying to win the AI race with money — but not everyone can be bought | Verge Meta says it’s winning the talent war with OpenAI | Command Line Google gets its swag back | Command Line The AI talent wars are just getting started | Command Line Meta tried to buy Safe Superintelligence, hired CEO Daniel Gross instead | CNBC Apple loses top AI models executive to Meta’s hiring spree | Bloomberg Meta’s AI recruiting campaign finds a new target | Wired Anthropic hires back two coding AI leaders From Anysphere | The Information Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is CNBC journalist Jon Fortt. This is the last episode I’ll be guest-hosting for Nilay while he’s out on parental leave. My guest today is Richard Robinson, who is the cofounder and CEO of legal tech startup Robin AI. Richard is a corporate lawyer-turned-startup founder working on AI tools for the legal profession. But law and AI have not mixed well. So I wanted to ask Richard about hallucinations, how lawyers can use AI today, and what it will take to trust an AI lawyer. Links: Legal tech startup Robin AI raises another $25 million | Fortune Why do lawyers keep using ChatGPT? | Verge Judge slams lawyers for ‘bogus AI-generated research’ | Verge Lawyers using AI must heed ethics rules, ABA says in first formal guidance | Reuters Lawyers fined for submitting bogus case law created by ChatGPT | AP The ChatGPT lawyer explains himself | NYT Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Alex Heath, your Thursday episode guest host. Today I'm talking with Gaurav Misra, the CEO of Captions. You may not have heard of Captions yet, but by now, you’ve probably seen a video that was generated using its AI models. The company’s Mirage Studio platform lets anyone generate AI versions of real people, and the results are alarmingly realistic. Captions just put out a blog post titled, “We Build Synthetic Humans. Here’s What’s Keeping Us Up at Night.” It’s a good overview of the state of deepfakes and where they’re headed. So Gauraav and I sat down to discuss the trajectory of deepfake technology and what might be done to prevent it from being misused. Links: We build synthetic humans. Here’s what’s keeping us up at night | Captions Google’s Veo 3 AI video generator is a slop monger’s dream | Verge Gemini AI can now turn photos into videos | Verge Trump just unveiled his plan to put AI in everything | Verge Racist videos made with AI are going viral on TikTok | Verge Microsoft wants Congress to outlaw AI-generated deepfake fraud | Verge YouTube is supporting the ‘No Fakes Act’ targeting unauthorized AI replicas | Verge This Tom Cruise impersonator is using deepfake tech to impressive ends | Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Jon Fortt, CNBC journalist. I’m guest-hosting for a couple more episodes of Decoder this summer while Nilay is out on parental leave. Today, I’m talking with a very special guest: Gil Duran, an old friend, journalist, and author of The Nerd Reich, a newsletter and forthcoming book about the shifting politics of Silicon Valley and the rise of tech authoritarianism. Links: Is Peter Thiel the Antichrist? NYT didn’t think to ask | The Nerd Reich How tech authoritarianism becomes reality | The Nerd Reich Curtis Yarvin’s Plot Against America | The New Yorker The rise of techno-authoritarianism | The Atlantic JD Vance thinks monarchists have some good ideas | The Verge Startups meeting with Trump officials to push for deregulated ‘Freedom Cities’ | Wired Peter Thiel-linked startup wants to build the “next great city” in Greenland | Inside Hook Bitcoin could replace dollar If US debt grows says Coinbase CEO | CryptoSlate Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Alex Heath, deputy editor at The Verge. Nilay’s out on parental leave for the next few months, so I’ll be stepping in to host our Thursday episodes while he’s out. My guest today is Perplexity CEO Aravind Srinivas, who is betting that the browser is where more useful AI will get built. Perplexity just released Comet, an AI web browser for the Mac and Windows that’s still in an invite-only beta. I’ve been using it, and it’s very interesting. In this conversation, Aravind and I also discussed the future of Perplexity, the AI talent wars, and why he thinks people will eventually pay thousands of dollars for a single AI prompt. Links: Perplexity just launched an AI web browser | Verge Perplexity wants to buy Chrome if Google has to sell it | Verge The Dia browser is a big bet on the. web and AI | Verge Perplexity’s CEO on fighting Google & the AI browser war | Command Line Perplexity launches a $200 monthly subscription plan | Verge Meta says it’s winning the talent war with OpenAI | Verge Meta is trying to win the AI race with money | Verge Meta held talks to buy Perplexity and others | Command Line Inside Mark Zuckerberg’s AI hiring spree | Command Line Perplexity is ready to take on Google | Command Line Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Jon Fortt, CNBC journalist, co-host of Closing Bell Overtime, and creator and host of the Fortt Knox podcast. I’m stepping in to guest host a few episodes of Decoder this summer while he’s out on parental leave, and I’m very excited for what we’ve been working on. For my first episode of Decoder, a show about how people make decisions, I wanted to talk to an expert. So I sat down with Cassie Kozyrkov, the CEO and founder of AI consultancy Kozyr and the former chief decision scientist at Google. Links: Google’s ‘chief decision scientist’ explains why she left the company | Fortune What is Decision Science? | DataCamp (YouTube) Is It All About the Data? | DLD24 (YouTube) Cassie Kozyrkov on how AI can be a leadership partner | WorkLab Decision Intelligence with Cassie Kozyrkov | Google Cloud Platform Podcast Why AI and decision-making are two sides of the same coin | Cassie Kozyrkov Google's got a chief decision scientist. Here's what she does | Wired Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this episode of Decoder, Ellis Hamburger — former journalist at The Verge, early Snap employee, and founder of the brand strategy studio Meaning — joins guest host Alex Heath to share why many AI founders are missing the bigger picture. Links: Meaning | Ellis Hamburger Social media is doomed to die | Verge I used the ‘cheat on everything’ AI tool and it didn’t help me cheat on anything | Verge Hideo Kojima sees Death Stranding 2 as a cautionary tale | Verge Apple heard your complaints about the Liquid Glass | Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s summertime, which means it’s time for our annual grilling episode. In years past we’ve talked to the leaders of Big Green Egg, Traeger, and Blackstone, and it’s always fascinating how those companies have all the same kinds of problems and ideas as any of the tech companies we have on the show. This time, I finally had the opportunity to sit down with SharkNinja CEO Mark Barrocas. We’ve wanted to have SharkNinja on the show for years now, mostly because it has the best name of any company I think we’ve ever had on Decoder — it perfectly describes the structure of the company – there’s Shark, and there’s Ninja. And just in time for our grilling episode, the Ninja division of Mark’s business just launched its first ever grill. Links: Ninja announces its first ever propane grill with the FlexFlame | Tom’s Guide How SharkNinja became a viral marketing machine | Ad Age How airfryer brand SharkNinja became a $1bn UK household name | The Sunday Times Mark Zuckerberg just declared war on the entire advertising industry | Verge Dyson, SharkNinja settle patent lawsuits over bagless vacuums | Bloomberg How arson led to a culture reboot at Traeger | Decoder Big Green Egg is inviting zoomers to the cult of kamado cooking | Decoder How Blackstone became the darling of grill TikTok | Decoder Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Matt Mullenweg, the founder and CEO of Automattic, the parent company of WordPress.com, Tumblr, and a whole host of other products like the new cross-platform messaging service Beeper. Last year, Matt essentially went to war, publicly and in the courts, against a hosting company called WP Engine, and there’s been significant fallout at Automattic and the broader WordPress community. It’s been a long, drawn-out saga. That said, Matt was willing to come on the show and talk through some of this thinking here, why he made some of the decisions he did, and also what he regrets about how some of this went down. Links: The messy WordPress drama, explained | Verge Celebrating 20 Years of Automattic | Automattic Matt Mullenweg: ‘WordPress.org just belongs to me’ | Verge Automattic offered employees another chance to quit over | Verge WordPress owner Automattic is laying off 16 percent of workers | Verge Tumblr will move all of its blogs to WordPress | Verge Beeper was just acquired by Automattic | Verge Automattic acquires relationship manager Clay | TechCrunch How WordPress and Tumblr are keeping the internet weird | Decoder How to buy a social network, with Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg | Decoder Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Hinge co-founder and CEO Justin McLeod. Hinge is one of the biggest dating apps in the United States — it’s rivaled only by Tinder, and both are owned by the massive conglomerate Match Group, which has consolidated a huge chunk of the online dating ecosystem. Justin and I dug into that here, and we also explored some of the thorny issues around AI and dating, Hinge’s monetization, and data privacy in the second Trump administration. This is a fun one, with a whole lot going on. I think you’ll like it. Links: How We Do Things | Hinge Hinge’s First Gen Z Report | Hinge Hinge’s new AI feature judges your prompt responses | TechCrunch When Cupid Is a prying journalist | NYT / Modern Love Tinder CEO Faye Iosotaluno to step down in July | CNBC Match Group CEO Rascoff to lead struggling Tinder app | WSJ Replika CEO says it’s okay if we end up marrying AI chatbots | Decoder Apple ordered to keep web links in the App Store | Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay. Decoder is on a short summer break right now, but we’ll be back starting June 23 with new episodes, and we’re very excited for what we have on the schedule. In the meantime, we have an episode from the excellent podcast Stay Tuned with Preet, with host and former U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara. Last month, Preet sat down with former FTC Chair Lina Khan for a pretty high-level discussion about antitrust, monopoly power, and the ongoing shift from both political parties in the United States toward more aggressive, bipartisan regulation of Big Tech. I think you’ll find it really interesting. Links: Stay Tuned with Preet | Apple Podcasts Google loses ad tech monopoly case | Verge Judge greenlights FTC’s antitrust suit against Amazon | Verge Judge rules that Google ‘is a monopolist’ in US antitrust case | Verge Illegally fired FTC commissioners on Meta, bribes, and fighting for privacy | Decoder The case for breaking up Google has never been stronger | Decoder DOJ antitrust chief is ‘overjoyed’ after Google monopoly verdict | Decoder DOJ’s Kanter says the antitrust fight against Big Tech is just beginning | Decoder Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith. Taskrabbit is an interesting company; it’s known best for being a platform for hiring people to put together your furniture, so much so that IKEA acquired it in 2017. But Taskrabbit is still operating as a mostly independent company all these years later, and Ania is now in charge of maneuvering a fast-changing labor market during uncertain economic times and a potentially major AI disruption to the workforce on the horizon. Help us plan for the future of Decoder by filling out a brief survey: voxmedia.com/survey. We’d really appreciate it. Thanks! Links: Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky wants to build the everything app | Decoder Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay with reinventing the bus | Decoder Google’s Project Mariner | Google Uber is testing a service that lets you hire drivers for chores | Verge Taskrabbit CEO on using empathy in leadership | Fortune Taskrabbit takes over on-demand moving service Dolly | GeekWire Ikea integrates Taskrabbit booking service into checkout | Retail Dive TaskRabbit to close its offices, go entirely remote | MarketWatch IKEA has bought TaskRabbit | TechCrunch Taskrabbit CEO: People will still power an AI workforce | Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Runway CEO and co-founder Cris Valenzuela. This one’s special: Cris and I were live at an event in New York City last month hosted by Alix Partners, so you’ll hear the audience from time to time. Runway is a leading AI video generation platform, and it’s getting better all the time. That puts Cris and his company on the same collision course with creators, artists, and copyright law as every other part of the AI industry — and you’ll hear Cris and I really get into all that here. Links: AMC Networks inks deal with AI company Runway | Hollywood Reporter We made a film with AI. You’ll be blown away — and freaked out | WSJ Mark Zuckerberg just declared war on the entire advertising industry | Verge Runway says its latest AI video model can generate consistent scenes, people | Verge Runway releases an impressive new video-generating AI model | TechCrunch Runway Trained on Thousands of YouTube Videos Without Permission | 404 Media Runway partners with Lionsgate to train on its catalog of video | Verge AI companies lose bid to dismiss parts of visual artists' copyright case | Reuters Help us plan for the future of Decoder by filling out this ⁠brief survey⁠. Thank you! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky. This is Brian’s fourth time on the show, and he’s one of my favorite guests because he’s so clearly obsessed with things like company structure, design, and decision making. You know, Decoder stuff. This time, Brian came on to talk about the company’s new services product and the full-scale redesign and rebuild of the Airbnb app to support these broader ambitions. There’s a lot of fun, very Decoder-y stuff in this one. Links: Airbnb’s new app has all of your vacation extras in one place | Verge “Flat design is over” | Brian Chesky Airbnb Is in midlife crisis mode | Wired He revolutionized travel. Can Airbnb’s founder redesign your entire life? | WSJ Airbnb’s CEO explains how he helped Sam Altman during OpenAI fiasco | Fast Company A conversation with Airbnb’s Brian Chesky | Figma Jony Ive is bringing his design talents to Airbnb | Verge Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky on what founder mode really means | Decoder Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky is taking it back to basics | Decoder Why the future of work is the future of travel, with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky | Decoder Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with journalist Megan Greenwell about her new book Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dream. It comes out June 10th. It's fantastic and maddening in equal measure. I highly recommend it. In this episode, we discussed the genesis of Megan’s interest in the subject and its genesis in media — including her time as editor-in-chief of the website Deadspin, which underwent a very public PE takeover of its parent company. We also talk a lot about the healthcare industry, another major pillar of Megan’s book. I'm excited to hear what you think of this one. Links: Bad Company | HarperCollins Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys ‘R’ Us | Decoder Private equity Is gutting America — and getting away with it | NYT I was fired from Deadspin for refusing to ‘stick to sports’ | NYT Will private equity be the next ‘Big Short’? | Marketplace The profit-obsessed monster destroying American ERs | Vox Why your vet bill is so high | The Atlantic The investment firms leave behind a barren wasteland’ | Politico Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinde Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In what's become a bit of a Decoder tradition, I spoke with Google CEO Sundar Pichai in person after I/O. The conference this year was all about AI, particularly a slew of actual AI products, not just models and capabilities. To Sundar, this marks the beginning of a new era for search and the web overall. So I had to ask: what happens to the web when AI tools and eventually agents do most of the browsing for us? It was a very Decoder conversation. Links: Help us plan the future of Decoder! | AUDIENCE SURVEY The 15 biggest announcements at Google I/O 2025 | The Verge We tried on Google’s prototype AI smart glasses | The Verge AI Mode is obviously the future of Google Search | The Verge News publishers call Google’s AI Mode ‘theft’ | The Verge Details leak about Jony Ive’s OpenAI device | The Verge DOJ says Google must sell Chrome to crack open its search monopoly | The Verge Google Zero is here — now what? | The Verge Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay with reinventing the bus | Decoder Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi. We recorded this conversation on the same day Uber announced a big set of product updates, including new options for shared rides. Dara was in New York for all that, so he came to our studio and we did this one together, which always makes for a great episode. If you’ve been listening to Decoder recently, you know that I’m very curious about how service apps like Uber will handle things like AI agents. Dara had a lot of thoughts there. There’s a lot in this one, and Dara didn’t hold back. I think you’re going to like it. Links: Uber’s new bus-like feature is nearly 50 percent cheaper than UberX | Verge Uber staff revolts over return-to-office mandate | Fast Company An interview with Dara Khosrowshahi | Stratechery Uber preps for Waymo’s robotaxi launch in Atlanta | Verge Uber ends year in the black for the first time ever | Verge Uber’s not out of the woods yet | Verge Uber CEO vows to be ‘hardcore’ about costs, slow hiring | Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Kevin Scott, the chief technology officer of Microsoft, and one of the company’s AI leaders. Kevin is one of my favorite repeat Decoder guests, and he joined the show this time to talk about the future of search. Microsoft just announced an open-source tool for websites to integrate AI powered natural language search with just a little bit of effort, in a way that lets them actually run whatever models they want and keep control of their data. I saw some demos before Kevin and I chatted, and the improvements over the bad local search on most sites was obvious. So we talked about what this will mean for AI, for search engines, and for the future of the web. Links: Microsoft’s plan to fix the web: letting every website run AI search for cheap | Verge Introducing the Model Context Protocol | Anthropic Copyright Office head fired after reporting AI training isn’t always fair use | Ars Technica Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott on how AI and art will coexist in the future | Decoder Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott thinks Sydney might make a comeback | Decoder Microsoft’s CTO explains how AI can help health care in the US right now | Vergecast Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/669409 Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Gerrit Kazmaier, the brand-new president of product and technology at Workday. Gerrit’s new on the job, maybe a little bit braver than most, and to his credit he came on the show and took the heat. We spent a lot of time talking about what enterprise software really is, what it does and why it has a reputation of being so deeply frustrating for so many people. Links: Workday names Gerrit Kazmaier president of product and technology | Workday How generative AI will impact the future of work | Workday Workday launches platform for companies to manage all of their AI agents | TechCrunch Everyone hates Workday | Business Insider Judge: Workday must face novel AI bias lawsuit | Reuters Workday lays off 1,750, 8.5% of employees, in AI push | Associated Press Why Workday's CEO made a layoff decision to invest in AI | FastCompany Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices