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Episodes
How To! | Get Sweet, Sweet Revenge
7/15/2025
Jordan is mired in a bitter war over off-leash pups at an unofficial dog park. With pro-leash forces deploying fake signage, ambush videos, and questionable zip-tie tactics in a campaign of shame aimed at her fellow dog owners, Jordan is ready to take matters into her own hands. In this first installment of How To’s guide to becoming an antihero, Courtney Martin brings on writer, storyteller, and comedian Matthew Dicks to counsel Jordan in the art of getting even. (Read Slate’s Revenge Week spectacular.) A little treat: Jordan's pup, Ziggy! Next week: How To Be an Ethical Hater. (Can’t wait for antihero guidance? Check out How To Be the Next Erin Brockovich and How To Confront a Crazy Neighbor (Featuring Tig Notaro). Are you carrying a petty grudge? Don’t get over it—we want to hear your story! Send us a note at howto@slate.com or leave us a voicemail at 646-495-4001 and we might have you on the show. Subscribe for free on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. The show is produced by Rosemary Belson, with Kevin Bendis. Our technical director is Merritt Jacob and our supervising producer is Joel Meyer. Special thanks to Sophie Summergrad. Get more of How To! with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of How To! and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the How To! show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/howtoplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:43:36
Death, Sex & Money | The Honeymoon That Ended in Immigration Detention
7/15/2025
Silvia Camila Muñoz and Bradley Bartell had been married for less than a year when ICE stopped them at the airport on the way back from their honeymoon in Puerto Rico. Silvia Camila came to the United States in 2019 to work at a Wisconsin waterpark for one season. The pandemic caused her to overstay her visa and continue to work without authorization. That’s when she met Bradley, a local factory worker, and a Trump supporter. In this episode, Anna talks to Bradley and Silvia Camilla about her 49-day stay in immigration detention, how it changed their relationship and friendships within their community. Podcast production by Zoe Azulay Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:56:24
Hang Up | Sinner Mows Down Alcaraz on the Grass
7/14/2025
Hosts Alex Kirshner, Ben Lindbergh, and Lindsay Gibbs are joined by Giri Nathan, co-founder of Defector and author of the new book Changeover, for a discussion of Jannik Sinner’s breakthrough win and Iga Świątek’s domination at Wimbledon. The panel also digs into the Atlanta Braves’ surprisingly disappointing season, and then they welcome sportswriter Henry Bushnell to post-mortem the FIFA Club World Cup. Plus, Lindsay has an Afterball on the amazing career and retirement of soccer player Tobin Heath. On the bonus episode available exclusively for Slate Plus members, the panel discusses the NCAA’s proposed plan to expand March Madness even further. Wimbledon (3:18): Sinner grabs glory The Atlanta Braves (30:18): The prospective world beaters now suck? Club World Cup (47:21): Was it worth it? Afterballs (1:05:30): Tobin Heath Retires. (Note: time codes are only accurate for Slate Plus members, who listen ad-free.) Get more Hang Up and Listen with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Hang Up and Listen and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Hang Up and Listen show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/hangupplus for access wherever you listen. You can email us at hangup@slate.com. Podcast production and editing by Kevin Bendis, with production assistance from Ben Richmond. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:01:22:49
ICYMI | Love Island’s Toxic Relationship With Social Media
7/12/2025
After a contestant was kicked off Love Island USA for resurfaced racist social media posts, the internet backlash was swift. But some think the show mishandled her exit, especially in light of the UK franchise’s past failure to protect the mental health of those in the villa. Hosts Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay dive into the show’s rocky relationship with social media harassment during its decade on air, including the tragic deaths of two UK contestants and host, Caroline Flack. How can the USA series learn from these tragedies, and how can the fandom stan—and unstan—responsibly? This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:45:08
What Next | Stage Managing Sex in Hollywood
7/10/2025
In the wake of #MeToo, Hollywood productions began hiring “intimacy coordinators,” people who work to ensure sex scenes are safe and comfortable for performers. How are they working out so far? Guest: Jennifer Wilson, staff writer at the New Yorker. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Ethan Oberman, Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:33:51
ICYMI | Encore: Is ChatGPT Your Therapist?
7/9/2025
Candice Lim is joined by Dazed senior writer Laura Pitcher to discuss her piece, “Meet the people using ChatGPT as their therapist.” Since ChatGPT’s public release in late 2022, there has been a growing reliance on the artificially intelligent chatbot in people’s everyday lives. TikTok users are talking about the way they use ChatGPT as their therapist, their best friend, their life organizer, and more. But is reliant, daily use of an AI service worth possible consequences such as climate change, loneliness, and data privacy concerns? On today’s episode, ICYMI dives into the unexpected ways people have been using ChatGPT and whether we can predict its role in the near future. This podcast episode was produced by Se’era Spragley Ricks, Daisy Rosario and Candice Lim, with production assistance from Alexandra Botti and Kat Hong. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:43:21
Culture Gabfest: Sorry, Straight White Male Novelist Edition
7/9/2025
On this week’s show, Julia and Dana are joined by June Thomas for a decidedly feminist discussion. They start with Sorry, Baby, the debut feature from writer, director, and actor Eva Victor, about a young academic’s life after a terrible trauma. The panel debates whether the film— which was a Sundance hit for A24 — is a tart, surprising traumedy or a frustratingly evasive experiment. Next, they get into Dear Ms.: A Revolution in Print, the HBO documentary about the pioneering feminist magazine. Finally, they take up a recent New York Times piece to determine whether the straight white male novelist is a thing of the past—and if we should care. Steve hops on the call to offer his token male perspective, naturally. In an exclusive plus bonus episode, the feminist discourse continues with a conversation about the oft overlooked fashion designer Claire McCardell, who is the subject of a recent biography Claire McCardell: The Designer Who Set Women Free by Elizabeth Evitts Dickinson and book review by our very own Julia Turner. Endorsements: Dana: The essay “It’s Only An Island If You Look At It From The Water” by Elizabeth Cantwell in Bright Wall Dark Room about the film Jaws on its 50th anniversary. June : The action film Heads of State starring John Cena and Idris Elba, or “Mamma Mia! with explosions.” Julia - The new book Empire of the Elite by Michael Grynbaum about the magisterial publishing reign of Condé Nast. (Recently excerpted in the New York Times.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:01:02:41
Outward | Archiving the Spirit of Ballroom with Michael Roberson
7/9/2025
This week, Bryan is joined by theologian, activist, and ballroom historian Michael Roberson to discuss his new book, Ballroom: A History, A Movement, A Celebration. Roberson traces the rich legacy of the ballroom scene—from its origins in resistance and survival, to its role in shaping public health responses during the height of the AIDS crisis and beyond, to its ongoing significance as a spiritual and communal refuge for Black and Latinx queer and trans people. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:44:32
How To! | Stop Giving 110%
7/8/2025
Kate is juggling a lot: work, kids, caregiving for an elder, a dance troupe, the PTA, community organizing. Oh, and she runs a ‘90s-themed DJ night, too. On this episode of How To!, Courtney Martin brings on Oliver Burkeman, author of Four Thousand Weeks and Meditations for Mortals, to talk with Kate about how to stop doing everything all the time. If you liked this episode check out: How To Manage Your Precious Time Do you have a problem that needs solving? Send us a note at howto@slate.com or leave us a voicemail at 646-495-4001 and we might have you on the show. Subscribe for free on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen. The show is produced by Rosemary Belson, with Kevin Bendis. Our technical director is Merritt Jacob and our supervising producer is Joel Meyer. Get more of How To! with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of How To! and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the How To! show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/howtoplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:44:58
Death, Sex & Money | What Military Service During “Peacetime” is Really Like
7/8/2025
Ray Christian joined the U.S. Army in 1978, as a way to get his life started. He became a paratrooper, an infantryman, and a drill sergeant. He also endured trauma and found that getting out of the service was more challenging than he expected. This week, Ray discusses why he signed up in the first place, what it was like serving in-between major conflicts, and how he eventually transitioned into a life of academia and storytelling. To hear more of Ray’s stories, check out his appearances on Snap Judgement, The Moth, and Risk!. And make sure to subscribe to What’s Ray Saying? wherever you get your podcasts. This episode was produced by Cameron Drews. Get more Death, Sex & Money with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of DSM and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Death, Sex & Money show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/dsmplus to get access wherever you listen. If you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:57:22
Hang Up | The LeBron and Giannis Loyalty Test
7/7/2025
Hosts Alex Kirshner, Ben Lindbergh, and Lindsay Gibbs break down an unexpectedly quiet start to NBA free agency while big trade rumors keep swirling. They dig into fresh betting scandals rattling baseball and basketball, including Guardians pitcher Luis Ortiz. And they debate whether the WNBA’s ambitious expansion plans are moving too fast for the league’s own good. Plus, Alex has an Afterball about the remarkable mismanagement of the Washington Nationals. On the bonus episode available exclusively for Slate Plus members, the panel talks F1 domination on the track and on the screen. NBA Free Agency (3:19): Could LeBron move on at age 40? Sports Betting (20:07): Did Luis Ortiz engage in micro betting? WNBA Expansion (39:10): Too fast, too soon? Afterballs (57:26): The Nats fired their GM days before the MLB Draft. (Note: time codes are only accurate for Slate Plus members, who listen ad-free.) Get more Hang Up and Listen with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Hang Up and Listen and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Hang Up and Listen show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/hangupplus for access wherever you listen. You can email us at hangup@slate.com. Podcast production and editing by Kevin Bendis, with production assistance from Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:01:16:41
Care & Feeding | Becoming a Parent Is a Process
7/7/2025
On this episode: Slate’s own Aymann Ismail is with us to talk about his new book, Becoming Baba – which is out TOMORROW! We’ll talk about the book. But first, Aymann, Jamilah, Zak and Elizabeth take a question from a listener who’s hoping to reclaim the time that she feels like she lost during the newborn phase. And on Slate Plus: Elizabeth has a dilemma, and Aymann sticks around to help. If you’re not part of the Slate Plus community, we hope you’ll consider joining! Keep reading to learn how. Join us on Facebook and email us at careandfeedingpod@slate.com to ask us new questions, tell us what you thought of today’s show, and give us ideas about what we should talk about in future episodes. You can also call our phone line: (646) 357-9318. If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get to hang out with us on the Plus Playground every week for a whole additional grab-bag of content — and you’ll get an ad-free experience across the network. And you’ll also be supporting the work we do here on Care and Feeding. Sign up now at slate.com/careplus – or try it out on Apple Podcasts. Podcast produced, for the final time, by Maura Currie. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:45:21
ICYMI | Not Even Lawsuits Can Stop AI
7/5/2025
Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Slate senior tech editor Tony Ho Tran to parse through what Meta’s victory in a recent AI lawsuit means for its users. Tools like ChatGPT are becoming more common at home and at work, but without protections, they could threaten not just the creativity of artists, but anyone who posts online. As regulation lags behind, how can we protect ourselves? And how many of us are using AI without even knowing it? This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Further reading: The Court Battles That Will Decide if Silicon Valley Can Plunder Your Work from Slate’s Nitish Pahwa Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:46:46
Care & Feeding | Comebacks For “I’m Bored”
7/3/2025
On this episode: Zak, Elizabeth and Jamilah talk about summer boredom. We get questions about this every year — so we’re coming in early this year with some ideas for how to handle that classic, but dreaded, complaint… that no, really, there’s nothing to do. And after that, of course, we’re sharing a round of triumphs and fails. Join us on Facebook and email us at careandfeedingpod@slate.com to ask us new questions, tell us what you thought of today’s show, and give us ideas about what we should talk about in future episodes. You can also call our phone line: (646) 357-9318. If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get to hang out with us on the Plus Playground every week for a whole additional grab-bag of content — and you’ll get an ad-free experience across the network. And you’ll also be supporting the work we do here on Care and Feeding. Sign up now at slate.com/careplus – or try it out on Apple Podcasts. Podcast produced by Maura Currie. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:42:06
Decoder Ring | The White Noise Boom
7/2/2025
White noise has a very precise technical definition, but people use the term loosely, to describe all sorts of washes of sound—synthetic hums, or natural sounds like a rainstorm or crashing waves—that can be used to mask other sounds. Twenty years ago, if you’d told someone white noise was a regular part of your life, they would have found that unusual. Nowadays, it’s likely they use it themselves or know someone who does. The global white noise business is valued at $1.3 billion; TikTok is full of people trumpeting its powers; and Spotify users alone listen to three million hours of it daily. Far more of these sounds already exist than any one person could need—or use. And yet, more keep coming. Looking out at this uncanny ocean of seemingly indistinguishable noises, we wanted to see if it was possible to put a human face on it; to understand why there is so much of it, and what motivates the people trying to soothe our desperate ears with sounds you're not really supposed to hear. In this episode, you’ll hear from Elan Ullendorff, who writes the illuminating Substack Escape the Algorithm; Stéphane Pigeon, founder of myNoise; Brandon Reed, who runs Dwellspring; and Mack Haygood, author of Hush: Media and Sonic Self-Control and host of the podcast Phantom Power. We’d also like to thank Dan Berlau, Sarah Anderson, and Ashley Carman. This episode was written by Katie Shepherd, Evan Chung, and Willa Paskin. It was produced by Katie Shepherd. We produce Decoder Ring with Max Freedman, and Evan is also our supervising producer. Merritt Jacob is Senior Technical Director. If you have any cultural mysteries you want us to decode, please email us at DecoderRing@slate.com, or leave a message on our hotline at 347-460-7281. Sources for This Episode Anderson, Sarah. The Lost Art of Silence: Reconnecting to the Power and Beauty of Quiet, Shambhala Publications, 2023. Blum, Dani. “Can Brown Noise Turn Off Your Brain?” New York Times, Sep. 23, 2022. Carman, Ashley. “Spotify Looked to Ban White Noise Podcasts to Become More Profitable,” Bloomberg, Aug. 17, 2023. Carman, Ashley. “Spotify to Cut Back Promotional Spending on White Noise Podcasts,” Bloomberg, Sep. 1, 2023. Hagood, Mack. Hush: Media and Sonic Self-Control, Duke University Press, 2019. Pickens, Thomas A., Sara P. Khan, and Daniel J. Berlau. “White noise as a possible therapeutic option for children with ADHD,” Complementary Therapies in Medicine, Feb. 2019. Riva, Michele Augusto, Vincenzo Cimino, and Stefano Sanchirico. “Gian Lorenzo Bernini’s 17th century white noise machine,” The Lancet Neurology, Oct. 2017. Want more Decoder Ring? Subscribe to Slate Plus to unlock exclusive bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of the Decoder Ring show page. Or, visit slate.com/decoderplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:54:58
ICYMI | The Most Famous Facelift on TikTok
7/2/2025
Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay discuss an American woman in her 50s who is going viral for her plastic surgery journey. Michelle Wood is a mom who traveled to Guadalajara to undergo several procedures, including a facelift and a chin implant. She documented her journey before and after the procedure, creating intrigue, curiosity, and surprisingly positive responses online. TikTok reacted similarly when Kylie Jenner revealed the details of her boob job and broke the internet within the same week. So what do Wood and Jenner’s transparency say about the way women are talking about their bodies, and their surgeries, in 2025? This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:36:29
Culture Gabfest: Brad Pitt’s Victory Lap Edition
7/2/2025
On this week’s show, Steve, Julia, and guest host Sam Adams are off to races with F1:The Movie, the new Brad Pitt racing vehicle featuring lots of racing vehicles. Is the thrill ride more than the sum of its sports movie cliches, high-octane action sequences, and perpetually handsome movie-star? Does the answer even matter? Next, they’re joined by Slate senior supervising producer Daisy Rosario to decode the particularly British charms of Taskmaster, the UK panel/game-show now in its 19th season. Finally, what’s more fun to pick apart than a best of list? Dana Stevens hops in to dissect the New York Times’s 100 Best Movies of the 21st Century interactive feature. In an exclusive Plus bonus episode, the topic is: sex! Specifically, the hosts discuss the status—and seeming decline—of sex in Hollywood movies. Endorsements: Sam: Drinking the anise-flavored aperitif pastis, the French brand Henri Bardouin is a good one to try. Julia: The delicious Los Angeles restaurant Tomat in the most unlikely of locales: a strip mall by LAX International Airport. Steve: The album Cunningham Bird by Andrew Bird and Madison Cunningham and the song Sara by Fleetwood Mac. Dana: The production of Shakespeare’s As You Like It available to stream on National Theatre at Home. Our Panelist’s Top Ten(ish) Movies of the 21st Century: Dana: 4 Months, 3 Weeks, 2 Days The Act of Killing Atanarjuat (The Fast Runner) Bright Star Children of Men Grizzly Man Parasite Portrait of a Lady on Fire Moonlight There Will Be Blood Julia: I’m Still Here Mean Girls Get Out Do Not Expect Too Much from the End of the World Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon Zombieland Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood Erin Brockovich The Act of Killing Portrait of a Lady on Fire Sam: In the Mood for Love The Act of Killing The Grand Budapest Hotel The Gleaners and I Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind A Serious Man It’s Such a Beautiful Day The New World Hedwig and the Angry Inch The Death of Stalin Stephen: Anora Spotlight Toni Erdmann The Lives of Others Paddington 2 Meyerowitz Stories Spirited Away Get Out There Will Be Blood Mulholland Drive Parasite A Separation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:01:04:51
How To! | Start Reading Books Again (Encore)
7/1/2025
Kate stopped reading in 2016. Since then, she’s tried to find her way back to it but something’s not clicking, and it’s left a book-shaped hole in her heart. Reading used to be something she really enjoyed, took pride in, and loved connecting with people over. On this episode of How To!, co-host Carvell Wallace brings in Maryanne Wolf, director of UCLA’s Center For Dyslexia, Diverse Learners, and Social Justice and author of the book, Reader, Come Home. Maryanne explains the science behind the reading brain as well as how to deeply engage with books and make reading a habit again. If you liked this episode, check out: “How To Put Down Your Phone” Do you wonder how best to use your time? Send us a note at howto@slate.com or leave us a voicemail at 646-495-4001 and we might have you on the show. Want more How To!? Subscribe to Slate Plus to unlock exclusive bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of the How To! show page. Or, visit slate.com/howtoplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:41:21
Death, Sex & Money | Baywatch Made Me World Famous. My Stalker Stole My Privacy.
7/1/2025
Alexandra Paul always loved connecting with fans. She had many, from her breakout role in the 1983 horror film Christine to her years playing a lifeguard on Baywatch. In 2011, Paul's career was slowing down, but it was also the year that she met her biggest fan: a woman who would come to stalk her for over a decade, costing Paul tens of thousands of dollars in legal bills, strain on her family, and forcing her to move across state lines. The ordeal is now over, and she has lessons to share. In this episode you’ll hear Alexandra Paul read from an essay she published in The Ankler, a newsletter about the entertainment industry. Podcast production by Zoe Azulay. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:00:56:01
Hang Up | The Caitlin Clark Dilemma
6/30/2025
Hosts Alex Kirshner, Ben Lindbergh, and Lindsay Gibbs discuss Caitlin Clark’s injuries, controversies, and dramas that continue to spotlight the Fever and WNBA. They also get into the effects of major league baseball teams' use of minor league ballparks, plus a talk with SB Nation’s Ricky O’Donnell to break down the NBA draft. On the bonus episode available exclusively for Slate Plus members, the panel speaks to Out of Your League newsletter writer Frankie de la Cretaz, about the Golden State Valkyries’ embrace and fostering of its queer fanbase. Caitlin Clark (4:33): All eyes on the Fever Minor League parks (26:22): How two pro teams have adjusted to smaller stadiums NBA Draft (41:55): Cooper Flagg’s a Mav (Note: time codes are only accurate for Slate Plus members, who listen ad-free.) Want more Hang Up and Listen? Subscribe to Slate Plus to immediately unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page, or visit slate.com/hangupplus to get access wherever you listen. You can email us at hangup@slate.com. Podcast production and editing by Kevin Bendis, with production assistance from Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Duration:01:08:21