Channels with Peter Kafka

TikTok banned itself for less than a day. Now it’s back in the U.S. - despite a law that says it shouldn’t be operating. We’re not going to weigh in on all of the… weirdness around the last few days on this episode, in part because we don’t know how it’s going to play out. But in the meantime I wanted to talk to someone who knows how TikTok actually works — from a content creator’s perspective, at least. Adam Faze runs Gymnasium, a small production studio that specializes in TikTok videos, and so far it’s gone well: In 18 months, he’s launched two successful shows, signed up Amazon to sponsor one of them, and is ramping up to make more. He walked me through the way companies like his actually make money on TikTok, how the platform differs from TikTok clones like Instagram Reels, and how he thinks this could grow in the future. Assuming TikTok sticks around the U.S., that is. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why didn’t Meta’s stock move when Mark Zuckerberg announced his pro-MAGA pivot? Why do big media companies want to dump their cable TV networks — but hang on to their broadcast TV networks? What’s going to happen in Google’s antitrust case?These are all good questions, right? I think so, too. So I posed them, along with many more, to MoffettNathanson’s Michael Nathanson, one of the sharpest Wall Street analysts covering tech and media. We cover a lot of ground in a short time, and I think you’ll enjoy this one. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I’m a lucky man. Whenever I’m baffled by the internet, and social media, I turn to my co-worker Katie Notopoulos, who is there to explain it to me. That’s because Katie’s job at Business Insider is to explain how the internet works — how the people who run big internet platforms want it to work, and what the people who actually use those platforms do on it, for better and for worse. So that’s what we’re talking about today, to help ease us into the new year. Discussed here: Why Katie still loves the internet and technology, even with all of its many warts; how she came to be a professional chronicler of the internet; how her views on all of this are changing as her kids grow older; and poop. Lots of poop talk here. You’re gonna love it. Note: We recorded this chat on January 6 — a day before Mark Zuckerberg announced he was going to reshape his entire company to accommodate the upcoming Trump administration. So that’s why it’s not in this conversation. Rest assured - we’ll be talking about this a lot in future episodes. Happy 2025! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I don’t love a lot of year-end #content . But I do love talking to Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw every year, to help put the year in media in perspective, and to think about what might be coming in 2025. And that’s exactly what we did here. Enjoy it now, or over your break. We’ll see you again in January. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Newsletters are not a new idea. Yet every few years the media business rediscovers them, anyway — either as a way to quickly launch a startup with bigger ambitions, or as a standalone business. Tim Huelskamp took the second route in 2017, when he co-founded 1440 — a newsletter that promises to quickly bring you the most important news of the day. Again — not a new idea. But Huelskamp seems to have figured out how to build something pretty big: He says 1440 has 4 million readers, and is turning a profit on something like $20 million in annual revenue. How’d he do it? What’s he going to do next? And how will he compete with AI companies that can do all of this faster, and cheaper? I’m glad you asked: I’ve got the same questions, so I asked him myself. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You probably shouldn't know Renee DiResta's name: She's a researcher who studies online bad behavior, not a celebrity. But the work DiReata did studying the "stop the steal" movement after 2020 has made her famous in some corners of the internet, and not in a good way: She's been harassed, pelted with subpoenas and sued twice. Now things could get really unpleasant for her. Donald Trump's victory means that a lot of people who have target dDiResta in the past are newly ascendant. But she tells me she's more worried about a chilling effect that could hamper anyone who's trying to learn about, and fix social media's ills. Also discussed here: what not to do when you go on Joe Rogan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Lots of people start media companies using money from rich people. Jason Koebler and his colleagues did it themselves, using a grand total of $4,000. That was back in the summer of 2023. Now 404 Media, the tech news + investigations site they started after leaving Vice Media, is a success story. Koebler tells us how they started, how it’s going, and what he’d like to do next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly and Bari Weiss all used to work for big mainstream media companies. Now they’re on the internet, building their own companies, with the help of Chris Balfe. Balfe’s Red Seat Ventures helps online creators set up shop, produce programming, and — crucially — helps them monetize through ad sales and/or subscriptions. Balfe got his start working with Glenn Beck when the former Fox News star left and started his own online business. I always assumed we’d see other high-profile talent follow Beck’s footsteps, but it took much longer than I thought. Now it’s a reality, and the talent Balfe works with may very well have helped re-elect Donald Trump. You can’t escape politics when you talk to someone who works with Tucker Carlson, and we spend a little bit of time on that in our chat. But this is really a discussion about how online media — primarily podcasts and YouTube — works today, and where it’s going next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You want up-to-the minute election analysis? Sorry, not on this episode. But: If you want smart thoughts about politics and media and tech all merged together? We got you here, courtesy of The Atlantic’s Charlie Warzel, who came on to discuss how we should think about Elon Musk, Donald Trump supporter, being the same person as Elon Musk, guy who owns Twitter. Plus, because it’s Charlie: A useful way to think about what misinformation is, and isn’t. And! If you don’t want politics in your podcast today, we can accommodate that too, via a chat with Griffin Gaffney, the CEO/publisher of the San Francisco Standard. The Standard, owned by billionaire Mike Moritz, is a three-year-old news startup that lots of people in the Bay Area seem to love. And I wanted to know how he’s making it work, and the pros and cons of having a billionaire owner, and how he thinks the paper might actually turn a profit some day. Ideally, you’ll listen to both of these chats. But it’s a podcast! You do you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jon Lovett and his cofounders at Crooked Media are a good story - former Obama aides who started their own media company after the 2016 election, and are now generating 25 million podcast downloads a month. But for a few weeks this summer, after they became prominent voices in the push to replace Joe Biden on the Democratic ticket, their story got even more interesting. I’ve wanted to talk to Lovett about that experience for months, so a week before the election seems like good timing, no? Also discussed here: How to navigate a media landscape dominated by Donald Trump; Elon Musk, and the upside of getting kicked off of Survivor. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Emma Tucker became the Wall Street Journal editor-in-chief in 2023, and she’s been moving fast ever since. For starters, there are punchier, more provocative stories and headlines. Just as important: She’s been making a series of cuts and staffing changes. That approach has its critics, but it also seems to be working: Subscriptions are up 7% in the last year. In our chat, we discuss all of that, plus more: What her background as a British journalist means as stakes out the Journal’s niche of “American capitalism”; why she felt comfortable running a story suggesting that Joe Biden was “slipping” weeks before it became evident to the entire world; and a brief update on Evan Gershkovich, the Journal reporter who spent more than a year in a Russian jail. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if you could watch shows and movies on a screen, for free, in exchange for watching some ads? In olden times, we called that “TV”. Now the industry term is “advertising-based video on demand,” and it seems to be growing quite quickly. This is good news for Tubi, the AVOD/streamer Fox bought back in the spring of 2020, and for Anjali Sud, who has been running Tubi for the last year. At the moment, Tubi’s programming is helping it beat services with much bigger profiles, and budgets, including Comcast’s Peacock and WBD’s Max. Sud, who used to run IAC’s Vimeo video service, talked to me live at the NAB NY show. Discussed here: Tubi’s approaching to licensing and programming, why it makes sense for the streamer to make a smattering of its own shows, and what being part of Fox does and doesn’t do for her. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What do Donald Trump and the video game industry have to do with each other? Nothing! Yet we’re combining them into a single podcast, anyway. First up: A chat with Gabriel Sherman, the longtime Vanity Fair reporter who wrote and produced “The Apprentice.” That’s the new Trump biopic that isn’t what you think it is, and is very much worth your time — and which almost never got released in the U.S. As Sherman tells us, this is a movie that’s a sort of Trump creation myth, centering around his relationship with Roy Cohn, the notorious lawyer/fixer. It’s not an anti-Trump movie in the vein of “Vice”, but it’s also not a flattering story. That makes it hard to understand why Trump-backer Dan Snyder initially backed the production — but less hard to understand why Snyder reportedly wanted to block it once he’d seen it. Sherman walks us through the whole backstory, which is wild even by Hollywood’s standards. And then we switch gears completely, to talk about the surprisingly troubled state of the video game business, with Bloomberg’s Jason Schreier. I’m used to seeing conventional media industries struggle in the face of digital disruption — but one of the reasons they are usually struggling is the rise of video games. Yet that industry is undergoing multiple years of brutal layoffs and consolidation. Schreier, whose new book “Play Nice” follows the twisted path of legendary games studio Blizzard Entertainment, tells us how the industry got itself into trouble, and whether it can play its way out of it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The last time I talked to Matt Yglesias, we were co-workers at Vox.com, and Joe Biden had just been elected president. Now Yglesias runs Slow Boring, a tremendously successful Substack, and I wanted to check back in. Discussed here: What a policy nerd does in an election that’s awfully light on policy; why hating the media is now a popular pastime across the political spectrum; what it’s like to run a three-person business that’s grossing something like $1.4 million a year. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mark Zuckerberg, along with most of the men running big tech companies, has spent many years and tons of money trying to put a computer on your face. Now it looks like he’s getting very close to making it a reality: He’s just debuted Orion, a pair of bulky — but not too bulky — glasses that are also a computer. You can’t buy these things yet - they cost Meta a ton to make — but Meta thinks you’ll buy something like it in the not-too-distance future. The crucial caveat here is that we don’t know if this actually true. And it’s possible we never find out - there could be engineering challenges that mean Meta can never get this thing into mass production. But Zuckerberg certainly seems confident. I got to try Orion briefly, so I want to share some of my impressions at the top of this episde. Then I talk to the Verge’s Alex Heath, who is both a face computer expert and a Mark Zuckerberg expert, and got to use Orion and talk to Zuckerberg at the same time. We talk about why Zuckerberg is building these things, why he’s showing them off — and why Zuckerberg is spending a lot of time telling everyone that his is a new Zuckerberg, and that he’s done with politics and done apologizing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

YouTube turns 20 next year, which makes it positively ancient by internet standards. Yet the world’s biggest video site is still incredibly relevant for huge swaths of the globe, even if it doesn’t get the media attention other sites generate. It’s also the only major social platform that routinely shares revenue with the users who create the stuff that powers the site. I think that if Google executives took a truth serum they’d tell me they’re jealous of places like TikTok and Instagram, which also have giant businesses but share much, much less of the wealth with their users - but CEO Neal Mohan insists that’s not the case. In this conversation we spend quite a bit of time talking about that business model, and much more: Like how Mohan thinks about AI; why he’s also in the cable TV business; and how he’s thinking about his company’s role in the upcoming US election, given the possibility of more election denialism. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When David Remnick got to the New Yorker in 1998, it was very much a capital M Magazine — it existed on ink and paper, and that was about it. Now it’s still a Magazine, but it’s also everything else you need to be to survive as a media company in 2024 — a robust online publisher, a podcast machine, a video operation, conference host and more. Along the way, it also pivoted from an ad-based business model to one that thrives on consumer subscriptions. And it remains one of my favorite publications, hands down. So I was delighted Remnick took time to talk to me about what has changed at the New Yorker under his tenure, and what hasn’t. Also discussed here: Whether the New Yorker still has special status among owner Conde Nast’s roster of titles; the acquisition Remnick should have made but didn’t; and why he invited, and then uninvited, Steve Bannon to speak at the 2018 New Yorker Festival. By the way: Welcome to the first episode of Channels! Feel free to send guest suggestions and (just about) anything else my way: pkafka on most of the socials. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when you mash up media, tech and business? You get a million things to talk about, and that’s what we’ll be doing on this show: Talking to people who run big tech and media companies, the people who are doing some of the most interesting work in those worlds, and people who can help us understand all of it. And by “we” I mean “me” - I’m Peter Kafka, and I’m a journalist who has been covering the collision of tech and media for a long time, at places like Forbes, Recode, Vox and now Business Insider. If you want, you can think of this show as a way to listen in on the interviews I do to get smarter about my work. And if you think all of the above sounds like the show that used to be called Recode Media with Peter kafka? You are smart, and perceptive and good-looking. And yup! Same idea, same guy, new name. Coming soon, to your favorite podcast app. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Peter Kafka, soon to be formerly of Vox, reviews the year in media with Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw. What did we learn from the strikes? Is the bundle back? Are movies back? What’s going on with whatever the NBA is doing right now? And what’s up with Bob Iger saying he didn’t say something he definitely said on live TV? This is the last episode of “Recode Media” in its current form, but stay subscribed to this feed! Peter and this show will be back with a new name and a new corporate daddy in 2024. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

After a wild series of events, Sam Altman is back as CEO of OpenAI… with more power than ever before. The Verge’s Alex Heath worked sleepless nights covering every twist and turn of this saga. He updates Vox’s Peter Kafka about where we are now, what all of this means moving forward, and how tech journalism can drive someone to mistake alcohol for water. Then, we continue with artificial intelligence talk as News/Media Alliance President and CEO Danielle Coffey pops in to discuss the journalism industry’s response to having its assets fuel generative models like OpenAI’s. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices